I would welcome a Sainbury’s in Tod, not only will it save me the trip to Halifax, but tidy up one of the many eyesore’s in Todmorden. Every approach to the town is a mess. I think we will have another eyesore now that Cinderhill Mill is being demolished, ok it will be much safer, but it will get left for all the weeds to take hold.
I would also welcome Sainsburys in Todmorden. I think it would be positive to provide jobs aswell as training programmes for local people. It would be handy for residents living down Halifax Rd.
Dear Jo. Sorry to be picky, but i do live down Halifax Road and am quite happy with current choice of Market, Lidl, Spa, and Hussain bros, thank you. I’m more worried about more cars our way never mind the lorries.
Thank you for your comments Mrs Mitchell from what we are hearing it poroves that Sainsbury’s is welcome and much needed here in Todmorden and I hope everyone will cast thier vote
Can i ask those who think sainsburys is a good idea. Do you have actual evidence that a sainsburys would benefit Todmorden as a whole?, That it would provide a NET increase in jobs, that the town centre and smaller retailers wouldn`t suffer? Or are you not bothered either way because you just like sainsburys and want to be able to shop there?
Have you been to other similar sized market towns and asked the traders there if they feel that their town has benefitted from supermarket development?. I ask this because having attended the Sainsburys planning apllication hearing it became clear that there is overwhelming evidence from various sources, including independent retail reports, as well as from the experience of other towns, that supermarkets damage town centre trade and the local economy as a whole, and that they lose as many if not more jobs than they create..Can i also remind everyone that Asda had threatened to pull out of Todmorden had Sainburys been given permission, as even they felt there was not enough spending power in such a small town to sustain 3 large supermarkets. It was based on this evidence that the council made their decision, and i believe it was the right decision.
.Listening to the views of those who support a sainsburys i feel that their views are based not on evidence but on opinion, conjecture, and an uncritical acceptance of sainsburys spin!
In answer the the question ‘do we NEED a Sainsbury’s in Todmorden?’ the answer is a simple ‘no’. Why would a town of this size require further supermarket space? The only people who feel this town needs a Sainsbury’s are those who shot there and don’t want to travel the extra few miles. It will come as a shock when they realise that this Sainsbury’s is of equal or similar size to our Morrisons and the proposed Asda and so they will have to travel out of town anyway.
I’m sorry guys that you find the blog confusing, and make the comment that the questions have changed. It states clearly “Do we need a Sainsbury’s in Todmorden” and has never changed.
My intention of the blog was to allow people to contribute to making Todmorden economically, socially and environmentally friendly. I feel that having comments on this blog allows the people of Todmorden to express an opinion and adds value in that it gives us a good idea as to the reason behind the vote. It also gives people the opportunity to contribute new ideas.
Please note that there is a link to e mail, Facebook and twitter allowing the general public to post this link on their own Facebook page as you have done. The Todmorden News ran a front page article last week bringing the blog to the attention of the readers of the newspaper, who are generally residents of Todmorden. This blog should be used for the purpose of voting and expressing an opinion on the topic of the vote as apposed to criticism of the blog itself, which was started with the very best of intentions.
The Site is about how many people vote yes or no to wanting a Sainsbury’s and not the comments which are interesting enough as this allow the people of Todmorden to express their opinion and as Comments are always valuable to indicate opinion and contribute new ideas, without necessarily having to vote yes or no on a particular question, it is however, a good thing to have a comment on why the particular vote was made. The fact that comments are on different pages shouldn’t make a difference to the fundamental purpose of this blog
I again apologise that some people are dissatisfied, you cannot always please everyone, at how it has turned out but it was just an idea that I had to get people to contribute to the welfare and aspirations for an economically, socially and environmentally friendly Todmorden.
The major problem is that no-one least of all the councillors, who are supposed to have the knowledge and represent the town, seems to understand the planning process. The planning application by Sainsburys should have been decided on the ‘planning merits’ as laid out in central government guidelines. If they had said ‘yes’ they would have had the ability to place planning conditions and discuss with Sainsburys some ‘planning gain’ such as investment in landscaping adjacent areas etc. They said ‘no’ so that opportunity has been lost. Council planning officers and planning consultants pointed out that there were no planning reasons for refusal. Sainsburys can now lodge an appeal which will be decided by a planning inspector from outside the area who will abide by the central government guidelines. He will decide,without local knowledge, if there should be any conditions and there will be no consideration of planning gain. Sainsburys could in theory seek costs against the council because the council’s decion was not in accord with the planning guidelines. Sainsburys will get the store and could be be financially better off because the councillors in clear ignorance said ‘no’.
There should be investment in providing sound business advice to the traders of Todmorden on how to present their businesses and claim the retail niches that do still exist. The competition from supermarkets is going to increase whether or not they protest against Sainsburys. Competition is not a planning consideration and bear in mind that the present government wants to reduce even further the limited planning controls in favour of developers.
Firstly, there was a planning guidance document drawn up by Calderdale Council about the gateway site. Sainsbury’s seem to have gone out of their way to completely disregard this.
Secondly, there’s Calderdales UDP regarding canals and tourism. Again Sainsbury’s have disregarded this.
Thirdly, there are a number of inconsistancies in Sainsbury’s application. The main one being the conflict between out of town and town centre location. Sainsbury’s appear to be considering the devlopment to be both or none, depending on which figure suits. They cant have it both ways.
This saga is far from over but to suggest that Sainsbury’s will win the appeal is a little premature.
That Sainburys will win an appeal is a very serious probability. They do have a well organised team which seems to have had a lot more experience at running appeals than the Calderdale councillors. They have won far more appeals than they have lost. I cannot find an appeal that they have lost where the original application was recommended for approval by the local authority planning officer or council appointed planning consultants. To do battle with Sainsburys you will need to study the records of the other appeals e.g. Melksham (Witshire), Darlington and Hertford which they won; Archer Road Sheffield and Tavistock which they lost; and watch out for Trowbridge, Saffron Walden and Preston & Old Patcham (Brighton) which should be heard in the near future.
You also have to bear in mind the changing guidelines to the planning inspectorate by the present government . The presumption is now in favour of would be developers for brown field land. National guidelines and policies will tend to prevail over local ones.
Incidentally it is possible to put in planning applications for alternative developments as long as the fee is paid and the certicicate stating that the landowner has been informed is completed. Where are these would be developers? The marina concept would not beyond the drawing board. British Wareways based on past history would not give approval. The only investors in hotel development at the moment appear to be Travelodge and Premier Inn in city centres and near motorways.
Personally I am opposed to any intensification of development In Tod town centre and along Halifax Road because the current combined sewage and water system of drainage is inadequate. Properties along Halifax Road have a risk of flood of one in five years through the drains. The flood defences along the river will not affect this. Such a problem does not have sufficient ‘planning merit’ to cause refusal of a permission though it could result in some form of condition on the approval. Sewers and drainage are usually regarded as a responsibilty of the Water Authority and local authority and should be provided to meet any development. Halifax Road needs investment in its infrastructure before new developments take place
I do not want a Sainsburys in Todmorden. People arguing for it, seem to be saying that we need to remove the derelict site. Sainsburys is actually contributing to the fact that it is derelict, at the moment.
From what I understand, they have paid £100,000 for the sole right to go for planning permission on this site. Until their appeal is over, no-one else can apply. Alot of arguments against the marina seem to be that it is our taxes putting up the money for it. That is simply not true, it would be funded by a private investor who can see the potential of our beautiful town. From what I understand there is a developer willing and able to put up the money for the marina, but he cannot move until the Sainsbury issue is concluded.
I would also like to point out that if Sainsburys win their appeal, then there will be at least 2 more derelict sites as a direct result. Lidl will go and the Asda will not be developed, leaving 2 large sites, to say nothing of the smaller empty shops that will appear.
I do wish people could have more imagination and creativity in thier vision for our town.
Sainsbury’s really ought to back down. Todmorden is a market town, not a supermarket town. Already host to Aldi, Coop, Morrisons and Spar there really is no need for a further supermarket giant swamping the town and taking money from the local trader’s pockets. Todmorden prides itself on it’s lively market trade; local stallholders serve local people day to day and there is a fantastic farmer’s market on weekends too. The people that work at the market really bring Tod to life, you get friendship, politics, laughter, recipes and a real sense of community along with your daily shop. Local producers and market workers are genuinely concerned for their jobs and livelihoods here, so please take time to have your say and vote for Todmorden.
Olive Mitchell
September 8, 2011 at 11:42
I would welcome a Sainbury’s in Tod, not only will it save me the trip to Halifax, but tidy up one of the many eyesore’s in Todmorden. Every approach to the town is a mess. I think we will have another eyesore now that Cinderhill Mill is being demolished, ok it will be much safer, but it will get left for all the weeds to take hold.
Jo Dobie
September 9, 2011 at 11:57
I would also welcome Sainsburys in Todmorden. I think it would be positive to provide jobs aswell as training programmes for local people. It would be handy for residents living down Halifax Rd.
Rach
September 14, 2011 at 21:33
Dear Jo. Sorry to be picky, but i do live down Halifax Road and am quite happy with current choice of Market, Lidl, Spa, and Hussain bros, thank you. I’m more worried about more cars our way never mind the lorries.
todcenter
September 9, 2011 at 12:04
Thank you for your comments Mrs Mitchell from what we are hearing it poroves that Sainsbury’s is welcome and much needed here in Todmorden and I hope everyone will cast thier vote
kaychown
September 11, 2011 at 08:26
Can i ask those who think sainsburys is a good idea. Do you have actual evidence that a sainsburys would benefit Todmorden as a whole?, That it would provide a NET increase in jobs, that the town centre and smaller retailers wouldn`t suffer? Or are you not bothered either way because you just like sainsburys and want to be able to shop there?
Have you been to other similar sized market towns and asked the traders there if they feel that their town has benefitted from supermarket development?. I ask this because having attended the Sainsburys planning apllication hearing it became clear that there is overwhelming evidence from various sources, including independent retail reports, as well as from the experience of other towns, that supermarkets damage town centre trade and the local economy as a whole, and that they lose as many if not more jobs than they create..Can i also remind everyone that Asda had threatened to pull out of Todmorden had Sainburys been given permission, as even they felt there was not enough spending power in such a small town to sustain 3 large supermarkets. It was based on this evidence that the council made their decision, and i believe it was the right decision.
.Listening to the views of those who support a sainsburys i feel that their views are based not on evidence but on opinion, conjecture, and an uncritical acceptance of sainsburys spin!
Saul Caldwell
September 12, 2011 at 20:24
In answer the the question ‘do we NEED a Sainsbury’s in Todmorden?’ the answer is a simple ‘no’. Why would a town of this size require further supermarket space? The only people who feel this town needs a Sainsbury’s are those who shot there and don’t want to travel the extra few miles. It will come as a shock when they realise that this Sainsbury’s is of equal or similar size to our Morrisons and the proposed Asda and so they will have to travel out of town anyway.
C.M.Baksa
September 14, 2011 at 12:25
I’m sorry guys that you find the blog confusing, and make the comment that the questions have changed. It states clearly “Do we need a Sainsbury’s in Todmorden” and has never changed.
My intention of the blog was to allow people to contribute to making Todmorden economically, socially and environmentally friendly. I feel that having comments on this blog allows the people of Todmorden to express an opinion and adds value in that it gives us a good idea as to the reason behind the vote. It also gives people the opportunity to contribute new ideas.
Please note that there is a link to e mail, Facebook and twitter allowing the general public to post this link on their own Facebook page as you have done. The Todmorden News ran a front page article last week bringing the blog to the attention of the readers of the newspaper, who are generally residents of Todmorden. This blog should be used for the purpose of voting and expressing an opinion on the topic of the vote as apposed to criticism of the blog itself, which was started with the very best of intentions.
The Site is about how many people vote yes or no to wanting a Sainsbury’s and not the comments which are interesting enough as this allow the people of Todmorden to express their opinion and as Comments are always valuable to indicate opinion and contribute new ideas, without necessarily having to vote yes or no on a particular question, it is however, a good thing to have a comment on why the particular vote was made. The fact that comments are on different pages shouldn’t make a difference to the fundamental purpose of this blog
I again apologise that some people are dissatisfied, you cannot always please everyone, at how it has turned out but it was just an idea that I had to get people to contribute to the welfare and aspirations for an economically, socially and environmentally friendly Todmorden.
Ken
September 15, 2011 at 11:52
The major problem is that no-one least of all the councillors, who are supposed to have the knowledge and represent the town, seems to understand the planning process. The planning application by Sainsburys should have been decided on the ‘planning merits’ as laid out in central government guidelines. If they had said ‘yes’ they would have had the ability to place planning conditions and discuss with Sainsburys some ‘planning gain’ such as investment in landscaping adjacent areas etc. They said ‘no’ so that opportunity has been lost. Council planning officers and planning consultants pointed out that there were no planning reasons for refusal. Sainsburys can now lodge an appeal which will be decided by a planning inspector from outside the area who will abide by the central government guidelines. He will decide,without local knowledge, if there should be any conditions and there will be no consideration of planning gain. Sainsburys could in theory seek costs against the council because the council’s decion was not in accord with the planning guidelines. Sainsburys will get the store and could be be financially better off because the councillors in clear ignorance said ‘no’.
There should be investment in providing sound business advice to the traders of Todmorden on how to present their businesses and claim the retail niches that do still exist. The competition from supermarkets is going to increase whether or not they protest against Sainsburys. Competition is not a planning consideration and bear in mind that the present government wants to reduce even further the limited planning controls in favour of developers.
Saul Caldwell
September 15, 2011 at 18:07
I completely disagree, Ken.
Firstly, there was a planning guidance document drawn up by Calderdale Council about the gateway site. Sainsbury’s seem to have gone out of their way to completely disregard this.
Secondly, there’s Calderdales UDP regarding canals and tourism. Again Sainsbury’s have disregarded this.
Thirdly, there are a number of inconsistancies in Sainsbury’s application. The main one being the conflict between out of town and town centre location. Sainsbury’s appear to be considering the devlopment to be both or none, depending on which figure suits. They cant have it both ways.
This saga is far from over but to suggest that Sainsbury’s will win the appeal is a little premature.
Ken
September 18, 2011 at 23:39
That Sainburys will win an appeal is a very serious probability. They do have a well organised team which seems to have had a lot more experience at running appeals than the Calderdale councillors. They have won far more appeals than they have lost. I cannot find an appeal that they have lost where the original application was recommended for approval by the local authority planning officer or council appointed planning consultants. To do battle with Sainsburys you will need to study the records of the other appeals e.g. Melksham (Witshire), Darlington and Hertford which they won; Archer Road Sheffield and Tavistock which they lost; and watch out for Trowbridge, Saffron Walden and Preston & Old Patcham (Brighton) which should be heard in the near future.
You also have to bear in mind the changing guidelines to the planning inspectorate by the present government . The presumption is now in favour of would be developers for brown field land. National guidelines and policies will tend to prevail over local ones.
Incidentally it is possible to put in planning applications for alternative developments as long as the fee is paid and the certicicate stating that the landowner has been informed is completed. Where are these would be developers? The marina concept would not beyond the drawing board. British Wareways based on past history would not give approval. The only investors in hotel development at the moment appear to be Travelodge and Premier Inn in city centres and near motorways.
Personally I am opposed to any intensification of development In Tod town centre and along Halifax Road because the current combined sewage and water system of drainage is inadequate. Properties along Halifax Road have a risk of flood of one in five years through the drains. The flood defences along the river will not affect this. Such a problem does not have sufficient ‘planning merit’ to cause refusal of a permission though it could result in some form of condition on the approval. Sewers and drainage are usually regarded as a responsibilty of the Water Authority and local authority and should be provided to meet any development. Halifax Road needs investment in its infrastructure before new developments take place
pamgolden
September 17, 2011 at 21:55
I do not want a Sainsburys in Todmorden. People arguing for it, seem to be saying that we need to remove the derelict site. Sainsburys is actually contributing to the fact that it is derelict, at the moment.
From what I understand, they have paid £100,000 for the sole right to go for planning permission on this site. Until their appeal is over, no-one else can apply. Alot of arguments against the marina seem to be that it is our taxes putting up the money for it. That is simply not true, it would be funded by a private investor who can see the potential of our beautiful town. From what I understand there is a developer willing and able to put up the money for the marina, but he cannot move until the Sainsbury issue is concluded.
I would also like to point out that if Sainsburys win their appeal, then there will be at least 2 more derelict sites as a direct result. Lidl will go and the Asda will not be developed, leaving 2 large sites, to say nothing of the smaller empty shops that will appear.
I do wish people could have more imagination and creativity in thier vision for our town.
Kate
September 28, 2011 at 19:16
Sainsbury’s really ought to back down. Todmorden is a market town, not a supermarket town. Already host to Aldi, Coop, Morrisons and Spar there really is no need for a further supermarket giant swamping the town and taking money from the local trader’s pockets. Todmorden prides itself on it’s lively market trade; local stallholders serve local people day to day and there is a fantastic farmer’s market on weekends too. The people that work at the market really bring Tod to life, you get friendship, politics, laughter, recipes and a real sense of community along with your daily shop. Local producers and market workers are genuinely concerned for their jobs and livelihoods here, so please take time to have your say and vote for Todmorden.